LSM "Don Guillermo"

From: vescardo@montevideo.com.uy
Date: 2006/04/08 Sat AM 10:38:40 EDT
To: jamestusing@cox.net

Subject: LSM "Don Guillermo" agrounded in Uruguay

Jim Tusing and Larry Glaser,

My name is Víctor Escardó (www.escardo.com). I'm an 3D animator, I live in Uruguay, South America. Im working on a "Small" Documentary for the national TV about a famosous agrounded LSM ship called "Don guillermo" here in my country Uruguay in 1952. I want to know which of all +550 LSM ships is it?

I have this information:
* The ship was sold to a Panama company and after to an Argentinian company called "Compañia rioplatense de navegación".

* It agrounded on Calavera(Skull) Beach near to the lighthose of Cabo Polonio (Rocha, Uruguay) on April 24 of 1952.

* There was a shining box with the following date on it: 12-4-40 (I assume that this ship was made on December 4 of 1940.

* I have more information.. but I think This could help.

Thanks in advance, and if you like I will give you all the information (Including photos) to your archives.

Víctor Escardó



Mystery Ships

From: vescardo@montevideo.com.uy
Date: 2006/04/08 Sat PM 01:51:00 EDT
To: jamestusing@cox.net

Subject: Re: LSM "Don Guillermo" and 2 pictures.

Jim,

Im sending you two pictures of the Book called polonio.


It has more than 25 pages dedicated to the LSM called "Don Guillermo".

Uruguay my country (with Rio de la Plata River) has a lot of Shipwrecks in his history the three more famous are The Captain Nelson's Agamenon, The Admiral Graf Spee (The war of rio de la Plata WWII) and the LSM "Don guillermo".

I hope you can find which LSM is ...

I will speak with the author of the book to know more about the "wrong" date as you told me.

Than you very much,

Victor Escardo


Subj: Don Guillermo Web Site
Date: 4/21/06 7:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time
From: vescardo@gmail.com
To: phbsyb@juno.com
CC: sandscraper3@aol.com, jamestusing@cox.net

Friends,

I have published a web site containing brief information about Don Guillermo. There is a link to your search Diary. I will add more information in spanish and in english. Please feel free to correct my english on this page.

http://vescardo.googlepages.com/

Thank you,
Victor



Hi Victor, Received your message about your LSM "Don Guillermo" it is very interesting and I will try to help you find the original LSM. First the first LSM was not built until 1944 so the date that you gave is not valid. As you know many of our ship's were sold and given to many South American Country's after WW ll. I will check with some of our men who have been successful in finding out about these things and will get back to you as soon as we hear anything.

Tks Jim Tusing LSM 372

Editor Alligator



Subj: Don guillermo
Date: 4/10/06 1:38:01 PM Central Daylight Time
From: phbsyb@juno.com
To: vescardo@montevideo.com.uy

Victor,

All the LSM's built are listed in the Navsource page at: http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/14idx.htm Most of the LSM'S were not started until 1944 so the 12-4-40 date on the box would not be the date the ship was made. They do tell what happened to them as they know at Navsource in the Final Disposition line.

If you could find someone in Rocha, Uruguay that would know about the grounding on Calavera (Skull) Beach near the lighthouse of Cabo Polonio they might have a picture in their archives. All I can find on the internet is in Spanish or something and I can not read it to find out who to email about information, except for reservations or vacations.

The picture you sent on the page in the book does show an LSM conning tower. One of the LSM's should have in the Final Disposition line that it was sold to a Panama Company and later to the Argentinian Company, Compania rioplatense de navegacion, at this address: http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/14idx.htm If you will click on each of the LSM numbers you should find it. I will try to look further when I have time.

Sorry I can't be anymore help.

Paul Burket, LSM 341, (1947-1948)
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma



From The Internet the Following Information was Found.
Rio de la Plata


Rio de la Plata is the muddy estuary of the Paraná and Uruguay Rivers, and forms part of the border between Argentina and Uruguay. The rich estuary supports both capital cities of Buenos Aires and Montevideo.

* It agrounded on Calavera(Skull) Beach near to the lighthouse
of Cabo Polonio (Rocha, Uruguay) on April 24 of 1952.

The ship was sold to a Panama company and after to an Argentinian company called "Compañia rioplatense de navegación" in English "River Plate company of navigation".

River Plate in Spanish is placa del río.

Cabo Polonio - 2005

Spanish
3 Km. al este de Cabo Polonio se puede ver los restos del buque argentino JUAN TRAVERSO que encalló en la playa La Calavera en 1944, llevaba carga de madera que fue muy bien aprovechada por los lugareños.- Poco más adelante están los restos del buque más famoso del Polonio se llamó DON GUILLERMO, ex barcaza de desembarco de la marina estadounidense reciclada, fue en el año 1952.-

English
3 km to the east of Cabo Polonio can be seen the rest of the Argentine ship JUAN TRAVERSO who ran aground in the beach the Skull in 1944, took wood load that was very well taken advantage of by the villagers. - Little more ahead they are the rest of the most famous ship of the Polonio was called DON GUILLERMO, ex- landing craft of recycled American navy, was in 1952.


Shipwrecks in the coasts of Rocha, R.O. from Uruguay - 1901 to 1959

WebPage Info:
Don Guillermo][ 1952 ][ LST ]
[ I in front of run aground beach the Skull, near the Juan Traverso and/end of Diablo and Cabo Polonio.][ 24/04- Landing craft adapted to freighter saved crew.]

Above is the Internet Information concerning LSM "Don Guillermo", that My Computer Mouse and I found on the Internet. We are of course Internet Novices and not Experts .....In the field of Internet Investigations.. Don't let my picture confuse you.


Was "Don Guillermo" a LSM or LST before he became an Argentina freighter? Only the SHADOW knows.........

Perhaps "Only Time" will reveal the Answer to the Mystery.
Well Time did tell ..... Don Guillermo is a LSM

Here's something to chew On... LSM (Lloyds Ship Manager) Directory 2000..
Registration of Ships - the international registers of Norway, Panama and the Republic of Libera.
Source: LSM (Lloyds Ship Manager) Directory 2000 and Ready; Ship Registration 1998 / no ...,

Now it could very well be... If the 1952 LSM (Loyds Ship Manager) Directory was found. It just might have the Famous "Don Guillermo" listed.

Peter Gunn


New Information The Trail Is Getting Warm........Again


Subj: Re: Don Guillermo
Date: 4/12/06 1:41:19 PM Central Daylight Time
From: vescardo@montevideo.com.uy
To: phbsyb@juno.com
CC: Sandscraper3@aol.com, jamestusing@cox.net

Paul and friends,

I will send you more Images of the LSM ??? "Don Guillermo". I will use a good scanner. There is a lot of images from the ship and the process of corrosion during the last 60 years.

LST? There was a mistake in that page, the data was taken from a book called "Naufragios en las costas de Rocha", I know the Author (Mr. Juan Antonio Varese).

There are a lot of legend on this LSM ship, one says that this ship carried arms to help a revolution to the president of Argentina: Peron (His wife is EVITA, and theres a musical about her life).

Evita: An Opera Based On The Life Story Of Eva Peron 1919-1952

Thank you very much, you all will be in my film credits like the Don Guillermo Researchers !

Victor


Subj: Re: Don Guillermo--LSM 323 [?]
Date: 4/12/06 2:12:34 PM Central Daylight Time
From: phbsyb@juno.com
To: vescardo@montevideo.com.uy

Victor, All the LSM's are basicly the same. They used two different main engines but most everything else was the same. The LSMR's had the pilot/conning tower moved back to the stern of the ship and a 3.50 Gun Mount and the bow doors were removed. See the attached LSMR 517. I started at the end of the LSM's and have looked backward to LSM 320. LSM 323 is shown below, and I have attached pictures from the -- http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/14323.htm Page.

"The LSMs and The Sands of Iwo Jima (Island)

"Among the Americans who served on Iwo Island, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
~ Admiral Chester W. Nimitz

"All who served, Friend and Foe, on Iwo Island, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
~ SandScraper 3/c


LSM 323 - Iwo Jima

LSM-1 Class Landing Ship Medium:
Laid down (date unknown) at Pullman Standard Car Manufacturing Company, Chicago, IL.
Launched (date unknown)
Commissioned USS LSM-323, 16 September 1944, LTjg. James C. Watt, USNR in command
During World War II LSM-323 was assigned to the Asiatic-Pacific Theater and participated in the: Iwo Jima operation;
(a) Assault and occupation of Iwo Jima, 19 to 21 February 1945
Decommissioned, 20 May 1946
Struck From the Naval Register in 1946
Final Disposition, sold, 12 August 1947, to Norfolk, Baltimore and Carolina Line Inc., Norfolk, VA.
resold, (date unknown), Panamanian Registry; fate unknown
LSM-323 received one battle star for World War II service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This could possibly be the Don Guillermo It is the first one I have found that was reported sold to Panamanian Registry:

The LSM 86 was named by their Navy as ARA BDM No.2, Q-69 and LSM 267 as ARA BDM No.1, Q-70. The LSM 86 was sold in 1972 and the LSM 267 was Disposed of in 1969.

Since the Don Guillermo grounded in 1952, the LSM 323 seems to be the best bet.

Looking forward to more pictures.

Paul Burket


It looks like Paul and Victor are closing in on the LSM 323. The trail is now getting Hot. The suspence is killing me. Stay tuned.........



Paul,

Thank you very much, I think we are close to LSM 323 (It has an amazing story!).

It will take me 3 or 4 days to get a decent scanner to send you the pictures. I will be interviewing people who in 1953 try to rescue the ship 4 times. There are a lot of pictures of this rescue and pictures of every decade!

Keep in touch,

Victor


New Information The Trail Is Getting Cold Again


Subj: More info..
Date: 4/19/06 9:08:12 AM Central Daylight Time
From: phbsyb@juno.com
To: vescardo@gmail.com

April 16, 2006 from the Boathistorian:

Paul - I don't know which LSM that gentleman is referring to but I know which one it isn't. It isn't LSM-323. She was still listed with NBC as late as 1971 so it wasn't her. I'm still working on it and will give you a lot of details about 323 plus some others later in the week.

HAPPY EASTER!!!! David aka boat historian

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then on April 17, 2006 Dave wrote:

In both the 1950 and 1962 Merchant Vessels of the United States printed by the Treasury Department the EDWARD HOGSHIRE is listed as official number 257616 previous name USS LSM-323 (U.S.N.). Saturday, I went to the library and traced this up through 1971. The ship disappeared from the lists In 1981 and I assummed that it had been scrapped..

Today I was checking NAVSOURCE and I think that I"ll come up with something other than LSM 323. LSM 323 was with the Norfolk, Baltimore and Carolina Line for a number of years and doesn't fit with the dates that Victor in Uruguay has for the grounding of the Don Guillermo. Will get back to you. Sorry I spoiled your candidate for this.

MY best. Dave aka boat historian

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will start my search back thru the LSM's again. Maybe Dave will find something for us when he checks further.

The Mystery continues. Apparently we need more information as to the size & length of the ship or better pictures of the Don Guillermo, to be sure that it was an LSM. It sure appears to be an LSM to me in the picture.

Paul


GOOD NEWS - GREAT PHOTOS
To: Paul Burket
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:59:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Don Guillermo pictures

Paul,

I contacted the Photographer (Mr Castro-Navarro) that took these photos in 1953, he has more photos and also a "video" that has been damage by chemical reactions. I hope we can fix it. He told me by phone that he slept one night at the ship. He didn't know that some of his pictures appeared in the book called "Polonio". I will have an interview with him next week. He is a cinematographer and a recognized photocamera man.

Keep in touch,
Victor

I must confess, I was skeptical but, We Now Know, as The Alligator Alley Editor, Jim Tusing, said, "It's no doubt; this is a LSM"

The Search now Continues for The LSM that became "Don Guillermo"

Subj: Re: Don Guillermo Web Site
Date: 4/21/06 12:02:17 PM Central Daylight Time
From: phbsyb@juno.com
To: vescardo@gmail.com

Victor. Your webpage is great and the link is super. Thanks for sending it. Hopefully someone will see the Web site or the Documentary, that knew or was aboard the Don Guillermo at some time, and let you know more about it. The documentary will jog a lot of old memories when you get it produced and on the air. The mystery still evades me, but I am sure we will find the right ship number one of these days.

I have completed my check of all the LSM's and haven't found any other LSM sold to a Panamanian company. Was the Don Guillermo registered to an Argentinean company or to Uruquay, when she went aground?

The search continues.

Paul

Subj: Don Guillermo
Date: 4/21/06 1:13:43 PM Central Daylight Time
From: phbsyb@juno.com
To: sandscraper3@aol.com, jamestusing@cox.net

Friday, April 21, 2005--From Victor.

Paul, Talked with the shipwreck Historian, Mr. Juan Varese, he told me that some Argentina ships carried the Panama's flag for convenience. So we have to look for the ships sold to Argentina also.

Two minutes ago I added more info to the website to contact people that are from Argentina, so they will help us.

The search continues.

Victor http://vescardo.googlepages.com/


Subj: LSM Don Guillermo
From: hmmccon@earthlink.net
To: phbsyb@juno.com

Builder outlined the number on each bow as a guide for the painter. If that area has not been destroyed it is still there. Other areas for a welded permanent mark may be on the counters; fantail; or the radio shack.

Howard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Howard, I thought about that too. I was hoping for a close up picture of the Bow or Stern, that would show the outline of the welded numbers. Perhaps one will show up in some of the pictures yet. In 1952 the numbers should have still been ledgible. This picture was in 1970 so it is hard to tell how much of the ship is left by now, if any. I am still hoping that the Boathistorian can find the right number for the 'Don' in the records somewhere. Hopefully Panama has a record somewhere of the registry, I just have not been able to find it yet.

Thanks for your input and interest. This has become quite a Mystery.

Paul Burket LSM 341

WEBPAGE NOTE
CLICK MOUSE HERE for the 1953 LSM Don Guillermo's PHOTOS.

Countries who fly the Flags of Convenience

Try this Insert this   ILO Panama ship Registry  in Google Search. ILO (International Labor Organization) You will/may find this very interesting.

This WebPage is now on Hold. If and When the Mystery is Solved an Entry concerning same will be made with Bells and Celebration. However, don't hold your Breath.....


The Oklahoma SandScraper 3/c has some thoughts on the above, but he is here only because he thinks he is a WebPage Editor. The Legend is ....He was once called, "The Editor from Hell." What that means, I am not quite sure of......he has never been to Hell. If he had he would probably be writing about it, and the story would be a success for everyone would like to know just what Hell is really Like.

Regardless of the Outcome of their Search for the Ship's Story prior to becoming LSM Don Guillermo ..... Victor and Paul will have contributed to the Legend Of "LSM Don Guillermo" to the WebPage Surfers, Who by chance happened to be Surfing By........



Off The Subject (Mystery & Legend)
To Somewhere In My Thoughts
Webpages, Movies, and Imagination

WebPages are like short movies. The WebPage Editor is similar to the Director of the Movies. The Director takes a story, directs some actors, plays someone's music, and puts it in a format that his/her Imagination takes them. Sometimes the WebPage/ Movie is successful and sometimes not..............Success will depend upon the Viewer's Imagination..

Legends are the results of a Writer's Imagination. Take some Truth add some Imagination and the Legend goes on and on............

~ Oklahoma SandScraper 3/c


Imagination

"Imagination of or in the Mind is a Powerful, Strange, Wonderful, and Happy or Sad Thing. It can take your Mind to places that you will never Go. It can make You a Person that you will never Be. It can make you Happy or Sad. You cannot Wish or Write without Imagination."
~ Oklahoma SandScraper 3/c

"Imagination is more important than Knowledge."
~ Albert Einstein


Look Very Close
What Do You See?
LSM Don Guillermo
Come Sail Away With Me

Come Sail Away - Midi
Written by dennis deyoung

I'm sailing away, set an open course for the virgin sea
I've got to be free free to face the life that's ahead of me
On board I'm the captain, so climb aboard
We'll search for tomorrow on every shore
And I'll try, oh Lord, I'll try to carry on

I look to the sea, reflections in the waves spark my memory
Some happy, some sad
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
We live happily forever so the story goes
But somehow we missed out on that pot of gold
But we'll try best that we can to carry on

A gathering of angels appeared above my head
They sang to me this song of hope and this is what they said
They said, come sail away, come sail away
Come sail away with me
Come sail away, come sail away
Come sail away with me

I thought that they were angels but to my surprise
They climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies
Singing, come sail away, come sail away
Come sail away with me
Come sail away, come sail away
Come sail away with me